>>36 I find it hard to believe that they don't have some form of consciousness. This might just be pure sophistry, but when I look into an animal's eyes, I see always see something looking back at me. Curiosity, fear, worry, I'd say that most of the feelings that animals have are negative ones, especially wild animals, but that doesn't dilute the fact that they have those feelings. A predator on the verge of starvation will go against instinct and desperately attack something they know they can't fight, just for a chance at a meal. A prey on the verge of death will still try to fatally wound the predator, making it a pyrrhic last meal. I don't think they view the world anywhere near us, with heightened levels of thought, but they are present in the world and conscious, that's what I believe.

the problem with this question from a materialistic standpoint is we aren't fully sure how the consciousness came to be. like, the scientific community isn't sure how or why humans developed a conscious. my guess would be animals lack the sophisticated level of abstract thinking we do. consciousness requires awareness of one's self, their place in the world around them, and their needs/emotions in a way that animals lacking human intellect cant fully emulate.

>>36 humans are not "technically" animals we are animals. if we have it then they have it too if we don't have it then they don't since we are essentially the same thing i also believe that pmuch everything living has consciousness because the idea that a plankton has it but bacteria doesnt is just too damn stupid a better question is why do you presuppose that animals might not have it? why do you assume that we have it? its about time we grow out of the 4k year old religious propaganda that we are higher than animals and we are gods special little kids

>>54 Religious comments aside, we literally are higher than other animals and we are special. We are the only animals on Earth capable of this level of thought and articulation. Some animals are smarter than others. It's very arguable that many animals do have rudimentary consciousness, likely comparable to a gradient of complexity, and the line between having and not having consciousness isn't cut and dry. But at the end of the day we are the most intelligent species on Earth by a LONG shot and no other animal is comparable. That makes us special and in some regards "above" other animals. >the idea that plankton have it but bacteria doesn't is just too damn stupid Yeah because that is stupid, neither of them do. >its about time we grow out of the 4k year old religious propaganda that we are higher than animals and we are gods special little kids God wants us to be the stewards of the Earth, our job (which we are pretty shit at) is to care for the Earth and its inhabitants as everything is His creation including ourselves.

>>55 can you rigorously prove anything you said? people believe the idea of human exceptional because they like it not because anyone knows anything about it >We are the only animals on Earth capable of this level of thought and articulation. how do you know that? do you know what a whale thinks? do you know what you mom thinks? does she even think? >Some animals are smarter than others how do you know that? has anyone ever developed a cross species "smartness" testing system? >It's very arguable that many animals do have rudimentary consciousness, likely comparable to a gradient of complexity, and the line between having and not having consciousness isn't cut and dry. how do you know that? what kind of tools or instruments or methods do we have that we can use to measure "consciousness"? >But at the end of the day we are the most intelligent species on Earth by a LONG shot and no other animal is comparable. again how do you know that? dolphins brains are bigger than ours what if they are actually smarter? >That makes us special and in some regards "above" other animals. we are special coz we are the only "we" we know of but "above"? i dont know about that.

>>55 the distinction actually is cut but wet not dry consciousness is an action or state of being one which humans characterise humanity by an thus delude themselves into thinking they are conscious far more often than they actually are, for instance, believing that it is a nescessary prerequisite for producing language. animals do become conscious far less often than humans it is true and this is because they are far more integrated into their environments and thus have more direct mechanical responses to input. trying to scientifically quantify consciousness fails in conception because science depends on consciousness to be intelligable (one has to not know something first and an instinctual machine in incapable of not-knowing, it only requires input). conscious beings however require not just input but knowledge, acknowledgement of which of a possible set to act on and then the input which triggers the action. consciousness can recognise other consciousness by acknowledging shared language (system of/ontop of instictual mechanism) but never be sure of the non-consciousness of a being (what's the difference between a non-consious being and one speaking a compleatelly unitelligable language? how would another consciousness meet you if it shared with you no perceptual instincts?) humans mean by "god" merely a consciousness with more influence than humanity. nature spirits and ghosts cease to be supernatural when scientifically explained. an alien species with more advanced technology than humanity would be gods.

>>73 you sound so retarded its crazy, should have left that shit in 5th grade anyway mammals, birds and bony fish all have consciousness look up the barracuda hanging around divers waiting for them to expose lionfish

Has anyone seen the videos of the pets who get buttons to push that says a word? I remember one dog eventually learned quite a lot of words, but was confused that it was a dog and not a human. It needed to be put on anti depressants afterwards.

>>76 serms like a leap on logic but this dog was apparently on antidepressants for anxiety issues before the button board came into the picture, according to an ai overview anyway, the wikipedia article makes no mention of it wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunny_(dog)

>>36 i think the way i act in my dreams is more nuanced than most people irl tbh

>should have left that shit in 5th grade why? that was one of the best times in my life continuous probing of environment and simultaneous action in response is the basis of all mechanical processing and thus thought. consciousness is the opposite of thought and occurs when thinking is otherwise impossible to create a new and separate "mind-space" to facilitate action. beings do not "have consciousness" as they "have" instincts, they are forced to become conscious of foreign objects to which there exist no instinctual reactions. in the case of humanity this has mainly manifested in the eye schema (as vision is the most remote sense) tho the ear is (was) returning (returned) tho this has somewhat reversed with bizarre effects. we have created a new world-environment (see from cliche to archetype "satellite imaging of the earth turns the planet into a stage to be programmed") which we are all collectively lost in

What is stopping them for having consciousness ??? If we do, they likely do have too.

If fish dont have consciousness explain the piraputanga. So crazy.

>>76 each and every one of these "experiments" for animals learning language or math that i've seen eventually came down to very liberal interpretation by the handler/researcher, or downright just a human pressing the buttons. i tend to follow the same reasoning as >>41 but at the end of the day we cannot really prove anything related to something so subjective as the experience of being alive.

>>73 "instinctual machines" dont exist among animals, maybe arthropods, spiders are kinda stupid imo I think defining consciousness as like "a state in which a creature is ready to change its pattern of behavior", a transitional state that when elongated out of necessity, i would say that tgat is where humans trump the rest of the animal kingdom, it doesnt have as much to do with attention span, pigs would have us beat, but its about chaining thoughts and figuring complicated things out in an involved manner, exposing the workings of the brain and not simply stopping for a moment and getting an answer from a background process if you understand what i am saying, if somebody tells you to calculate 5*12 you kind of just know that its 60, you dont need to think much because its not a large complex system, especially one that involves yourself as a moving part and you know, if we go with that consciousness appears to be a prerequisite for all animals that have place in the middle of the food chain, alternating between prey and predatory behavior, discovering behavior, migratory behavior.